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	<title>Comments on: John Stanton: Hamas&#8217; IT Tops Human Terrain System IT in Internet Capability, Savvy (2.1)</title>
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	<link>http://zeroanthropology.net/2009/01/14/john-stanton-hamas-it-tops-human-terrain-system-it-in-internet-capability-savvy/</link>
	<description>Turning and turning in the widening gyre &#124; The falcon cannot hear the falconer &#124; Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold &#124; Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world &#124; The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere &#124; The ceremony of innocence is drowned &#124; The best lack all conviction, while the worst &#124; Are full of passionate intensity. -- W.B. Yeats, The Second Coming</description>
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		<title>By: Marc Tyrrell</title>
		<link>http://zeroanthropology.net/2009/01/14/john-stanton-hamas-it-tops-human-terrain-system-it-in-internet-capability-savvy/#comment-3249</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Marc Tyrrell]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 20:37:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://openanthropology.wordpress.com/?p=3968#comment-3249</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[No worries, Max.  I read some of the comments elsewhere (Danger Room comes to mind) and I agree - there is a lot of incoherent ranting.  I son&#039;t blame you at all for not wanting to have it up.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No worries, Max.  I read some of the comments elsewhere (Danger Room comes to mind) and I agree &#8211; there is a lot of incoherent ranting.  I son&#8217;t blame you at all for not wanting to have it up.</p>
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		<title>By: Maximilian Forte</title>
		<link>http://zeroanthropology.net/2009/01/14/john-stanton-hamas-it-tops-human-terrain-system-it-in-internet-capability-savvy/#comment-3248</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Maximilian Forte]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 20:34:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://openanthropology.wordpress.com/?p=3968#comment-3248</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks again Marc, and sorry to hold up your comment in a queue. While MadAxe has the right spirit, and I might give it a try, some of the stuff that comes in is barely coherent ranting of a personal nature and I don&#039;t want it up on the screen.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks again Marc, and sorry to hold up your comment in a queue. While MadAxe has the right spirit, and I might give it a try, some of the stuff that comes in is barely coherent ranting of a personal nature and I don&#8217;t want it up on the screen.</p>
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		<title>By: Marc Tyrrell</title>
		<link>http://zeroanthropology.net/2009/01/14/john-stanton-hamas-it-tops-human-terrain-system-it-in-internet-capability-savvy/#comment-3247</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Marc Tyrrell]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 20:04:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://openanthropology.wordpress.com/?p=3968#comment-3247</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Max,

Honestly, I am quite surprised that they managed to get up the memoriam page for Paula Loyd so quickly.  My understanding of .mil sites is that there is usually a 3-4 week delay in any changes and that they have to be approved (usually by people with no understanding of what they are saying).  It&#039;s worse than dealing with Treasury Board here in Canada (and THAT is saying a lot)!

I&#039;ve never really felt that the &quot;they knew what they were signing up for&quot; line held much water for most of the social scientists involved.  There probably was an intellectual understanding but, let&#039;s face it, most of us have never been under fire.  We may &quot;know&quot; intellectually, but we don&#039;t &quot;know&quot; in our guts and we certainly don&#039;t have the trained physical responses to handle it.  And that is only considering the immediate environment...

Honestly, I&#039;m still mulling over the ongoing HTS story, but I think you are right that it raises all sorts of new questions (although I suspect that what those are differs between us :-) ).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Max,</p>
<p>Honestly, I am quite surprised that they managed to get up the memoriam page for Paula Loyd so quickly.  My understanding of .mil sites is that there is usually a 3-4 week delay in any changes and that they have to be approved (usually by people with no understanding of what they are saying).  It&#8217;s worse than dealing with Treasury Board here in Canada (and THAT is saying a lot)!</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve never really felt that the &#8220;they knew what they were signing up for&#8221; line held much water for most of the social scientists involved.  There probably was an intellectual understanding but, let&#8217;s face it, most of us have never been under fire.  We may &#8220;know&#8221; intellectually, but we don&#8217;t &#8220;know&#8221; in our guts and we certainly don&#8217;t have the trained physical responses to handle it.  And that is only considering the immediate environment&#8230;</p>
<p>Honestly, I&#8217;m still mulling over the ongoing HTS story, but I think you are right that it raises all sorts of new questions (although I suspect that what those are differs between us :-) ).</p>
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		<title>By: Maximilian Forte</title>
		<link>http://zeroanthropology.net/2009/01/14/john-stanton-hamas-it-tops-human-terrain-system-it-in-internet-capability-savvy/#comment-3246</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Maximilian Forte]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 19:45:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://openanthropology.wordpress.com/?p=3968#comment-3246</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks Marc. While some would, and do, say &quot;they know what the risks are when they sign up,&quot; these observations like the ones you made are a bit more concrete and sobering than the general statement. Some might not really be aware of what the specific risks are, or, they might not be able to envision the kinds of situations and settings in which they will find themselves.

In the meantime, HTS has created a story that raises all sorts of new questions thanks to its very many gaps and contradictions. They were late in putting it up, and now it seems like it was also done in haste nonetheless.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Marc. While some would, and do, say &#8220;they know what the risks are when they sign up,&#8221; these observations like the ones you made are a bit more concrete and sobering than the general statement. Some might not really be aware of what the specific risks are, or, they might not be able to envision the kinds of situations and settings in which they will find themselves.</p>
<p>In the meantime, HTS has created a story that raises all sorts of new questions thanks to its very many gaps and contradictions. They were late in putting it up, and now it seems like it was also done in haste nonetheless.</p>
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		<title>By: Marc Tyrrell</title>
		<link>http://zeroanthropology.net/2009/01/14/john-stanton-hamas-it-tops-human-terrain-system-it-in-internet-capability-savvy/#comment-3245</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Marc Tyrrell]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 18:35:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://openanthropology.wordpress.com/?p=3968#comment-3245</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Max,

Just a quick comment on whether or not the HTS personnelle may be being targeted.  I would be VERY surprised if they aren&#039;t.  Whether or not they might be considered as combatants under international law, they are certainly considered as such under the AQ / Taliban interpretation of Islamic law.  More prosaicly, such strikes would have a really solid symbolic resonance with both their own potential recruits and with Western concepts.  In other words, they can kill two birds with one stone by targeting HTS personnelle.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Max,</p>
<p>Just a quick comment on whether or not the HTS personnelle may be being targeted.  I would be VERY surprised if they aren&#8217;t.  Whether or not they might be considered as combatants under international law, they are certainly considered as such under the AQ / Taliban interpretation of Islamic law.  More prosaicly, such strikes would have a really solid symbolic resonance with both their own potential recruits and with Western concepts.  In other words, they can kill two birds with one stone by targeting HTS personnelle.</p>
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		<title>By: MadAxe</title>
		<link>http://zeroanthropology.net/2009/01/14/john-stanton-hamas-it-tops-human-terrain-system-it-in-internet-capability-savvy/#comment-3240</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MadAxe]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 19:32:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://openanthropology.wordpress.com/?p=3968#comment-3240</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Max, if you&#039;ll forgive me for saying, next time post their stupid remarks. That&#039;s not so we can entertain them but instead mount them as ethnographic exhibits.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Max, if you&#8217;ll forgive me for saying, next time post their stupid remarks. That&#8217;s not so we can entertain them but instead mount them as ethnographic exhibits.</p>
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		<title>By: Maximilian Forte</title>
		<link>http://zeroanthropology.net/2009/01/14/john-stanton-hamas-it-tops-human-terrain-system-it-in-internet-capability-savvy/#comment-3239</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Maximilian Forte]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 15:05:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://openanthropology.wordpress.com/?p=3968#comment-3239</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This does not address your comment, but I had another thought that I did not place in the post above, concerning deliberate Taliban targeting, and some of the contradictions this produces in my own thinking about one aspect of HTS.

Let me start with the first part. If there is active Taliban targeting of HTS, then I seriously and sincerely fear what the next attacks might look like. The attack on Loyd was intended to be graphic and shocking, and my suspicion is that it was a mere matter of logistics that prevented the Taliban from video taping it. The next attack might see a HTS member getting kidnapped and something just as awful, or even worse (if that is conceivable), being done on video for the Internet audience. With the seemingly insatiable capacity for voyeurism in our society, you know that many would look at the video, even if just to post their comments -- &quot;these animals, slaughter them!&quot; -- to exercise their emotions and their nationalism.

Following from that is the question whether civilian social scientists on Human Terrain Teams can ever get paid enough, when they incur such risks. There is the contradiction: I have frequently criticized the extraordinary payment levels, noting this is intended to lure people to sign up. However, when an attack such as the one on Loyd occurs, the question is whether any financial compensation could ever have been &quot;enough&quot; since it involves pricing a human life. That would apply to any soldier as well -- and if you aim for compensation that matches something invaluable as a human life, you end up with an army of one, in permanent debt. In other words, the military does not just cheapen the life of others, it cheapens the life of its own, as a matter of course.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This does not address your comment, but I had another thought that I did not place in the post above, concerning deliberate Taliban targeting, and some of the contradictions this produces in my own thinking about one aspect of HTS.</p>
<p>Let me start with the first part. If there is active Taliban targeting of HTS, then I seriously and sincerely fear what the next attacks might look like. The attack on Loyd was intended to be graphic and shocking, and my suspicion is that it was a mere matter of logistics that prevented the Taliban from video taping it. The next attack might see a HTS member getting kidnapped and something just as awful, or even worse (if that is conceivable), being done on video for the Internet audience. With the seemingly insatiable capacity for voyeurism in our society, you know that many would look at the video, even if just to post their comments &#8212; &#8220;these animals, slaughter them!&#8221; &#8212; to exercise their emotions and their nationalism.</p>
<p>Following from that is the question whether civilian social scientists on Human Terrain Teams can ever get paid enough, when they incur such risks. There is the contradiction: I have frequently criticized the extraordinary payment levels, noting this is intended to lure people to sign up. However, when an attack such as the one on Loyd occurs, the question is whether any financial compensation could ever have been &#8220;enough&#8221; since it involves pricing a human life. That would apply to any soldier as well &#8212; and if you aim for compensation that matches something invaluable as a human life, you end up with an army of one, in permanent debt. In other words, the military does not just cheapen the life of others, it cheapens the life of its own, as a matter of course.</p>
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		<title>By: MadAxe</title>
		<link>http://zeroanthropology.net/2009/01/14/john-stanton-hamas-it-tops-human-terrain-system-it-in-internet-capability-savvy/#comment-3238</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MadAxe]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 14:32:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://openanthropology.wordpress.com/?p=3968#comment-3238</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Just caught this I guess right after it went up. Loved your intro, these HTS  people are real butchers and gangsters. They almost appeal to my dark and sick side. However, that&#039;s not how you pay respect to a deceased colleague, especially when it&#039;s your program is what helped to get them killed.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just caught this I guess right after it went up. Loved your intro, these HTS  people are real butchers and gangsters. They almost appeal to my dark and sick side. However, that&#8217;s not how you pay respect to a deceased colleague, especially when it&#8217;s your program is what helped to get them killed.</p>
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