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	<title>Comments on: Dr. Rat: Defender of the Rat People</title>
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	<link>http://zeroanthropology.net/2009/02/12/dr-rat-defender-of-the-rat-people/</link>
	<description>Turning and turning in the widening gyre &#124; The falcon cannot hear the falconer &#124; Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold &#124; Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world &#124; The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere &#124; The ceremony of innocence is drowned &#124; The best lack all conviction, while the worst &#124; Are full of passionate intensity. -- W.B. Yeats, The Second Coming</description>
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		<title>By: Nation-building, Democracy, Free Markets: A Note to the Occupiers &#171; OPEN ANTHROPOLOGY</title>
		<link>http://zeroanthropology.net/2009/02/12/dr-rat-defender-of-the-rat-people/#comment-4400</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nation-building, Democracy, Free Markets: A Note to the Occupiers &#171; OPEN ANTHROPOLOGY]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Mar 2009 00:31:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://openanthropology.wordpress.com/?p=4465#comment-4400</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] the hands of an Afghan attacker, Abdul Salam, used by many as an icon of Afghan men as animals (see here, as just one [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the hands of an Afghan attacker, Abdul Salam, used by many as an icon of Afghan men as animals (see here, as just one [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Maximilian Forte</title>
		<link>http://zeroanthropology.net/2009/02/12/dr-rat-defender-of-the-rat-people/#comment-3752</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Maximilian Forte]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Feb 2009 17:44:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://openanthropology.wordpress.com/?p=4465#comment-3752</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks so much Cobalt, your visits and comments are always appreciated. This is especially true given that in revising a previous post of a few months back, I somehow managed to delete all the comments that went with it, including yours, so that the post itself is now a lot less interesting.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks so much Cobalt, your visits and comments are always appreciated. This is especially true given that in revising a previous post of a few months back, I somehow managed to delete all the comments that went with it, including yours, so that the post itself is now a lot less interesting.</p>
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		<title>By: Cobalt</title>
		<link>http://zeroanthropology.net/2009/02/12/dr-rat-defender-of-the-rat-people/#comment-3751</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Cobalt]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Feb 2009 17:18:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://openanthropology.wordpress.com/?p=4465#comment-3751</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As someone currently deeply ambivalent about an occupation of Afghanistan (since I&#039;m wavering between feeling that international intervention for the sake of safety or human rights can be acceptable contrasted with the deep conviction that setting up puppet governments is a real inexcusable douche move no matter the reason/excuse), I really really appreciate what you&#039;ve been writing here. I&#039;ve found your perspective on this extremely helpful, and I hope you continue getting that perspective out there.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As someone currently deeply ambivalent about an occupation of Afghanistan (since I&#8217;m wavering between feeling that international intervention for the sake of safety or human rights can be acceptable contrasted with the deep conviction that setting up puppet governments is a real inexcusable douche move no matter the reason/excuse), I really really appreciate what you&#8217;ve been writing here. I&#8217;ve found your perspective on this extremely helpful, and I hope you continue getting that perspective out there.</p>
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		<title>By: Marketing the Martyr: Joan of Arc, Florence Nightingale&#8230;Paula Loyd &#171; OPEN ANTHROPOLOGY</title>
		<link>http://zeroanthropology.net/2009/02/12/dr-rat-defender-of-the-rat-people/#comment-3671</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Marketing the Martyr: Joan of Arc, Florence Nightingale&#8230;Paula Loyd &#171; OPEN ANTHROPOLOGY]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2009 08:13:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://openanthropology.wordpress.com/?p=4465#comment-3671</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Dr. Rat: Defender of the Rat&#160;People  [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Dr. Rat: Defender of the Rat&nbsp;People  [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Teaching Gender Equality to Afghan Men: Using Gunshots to the Head &#171; OPEN ANTHROPOLOGY</title>
		<link>http://zeroanthropology.net/2009/02/12/dr-rat-defender-of-the-rat-people/#comment-3624</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Teaching Gender Equality to Afghan Men: Using Gunshots to the Head &#171; OPEN ANTHROPOLOGY]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 19:01:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://openanthropology.wordpress.com/?p=4465#comment-3624</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] [see also: &quot;Dr. Rat: Defender of the Rat People.&#8221; [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] [see also: "Dr. Rat: Defender of the Rat People.&#8221; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Maximilian Forte</title>
		<link>http://zeroanthropology.net/2009/02/12/dr-rat-defender-of-the-rat-people/#comment-3621</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Maximilian Forte]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 18:09:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://openanthropology.wordpress.com/?p=4465#comment-3621</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hello Sandra,

I could not find the same problem you spoke of regarding rape and domestic assault rates. The focus was a two-year period, and over that two-year period in which they gathered the statistics there was a very large increase.

Back to the original question you raised, since it raises what most other commentators have missed completely/conveniently.

Paula Loyd was supposedly a cultural specialist when it came to Afghanistan. She also had a degree in anthropology, not an advanced one, but a degree nonetheless. She had spent several years in Afghanistan. According to Paula Loyd herself, she was not subject to the same rules and standards as Afghan women:

”Sometimes I’ll be talking to the men in a village and they’ll turn to the interpreter and say, ‘Is that a man or a woman?’ But I haven’t had any problems with them. They’ve all been very nice,” Loyd said….Loyd said Afghans do not expect their societal norms to apply to her because she is not from their culture. ”So the fact that I’m a woman doesn’t mean I need to be in a burka and they can’t deal with me. They take me for who I am, they accept me for who I am. And they’re willing to work with me,” she said.

She apparently reflected this very thinking in speaking to Abdul Salam. Whatever Afghan norms may be regarding professional women and so forth, Loyd says they were not applied to her. This attack, therefore, cannot be understood as &quot;another example&quot; of how Afghan men treat women, and therefore the focus of so many American commentators is entirely misplaced to begin with -- that is, if we believe Loyd.

If we do not believe Loyd, and most of her online mourners do not realize that they in fact undermine her credibility and her knowledge, then there are only two options available: Loyd was ignorant, and really did not understand Afghan culture, or, she did, she would have expected such an attack, and she was just stupid. Either way, her supposed mourners and sympathizers put her in this position, not me. Keep in mind, none of her teammates apparently thought anything was unusual about a local man speaking to Loyd, since none intervened immediately sensing possible danger.

Now, what do the many online American critics of Salam like to say repeatedly? The attack on Loyd is representative of their culture, which does not discriminate between local and foreign females, and all independent and professional females are to be targeted for murder. So they know better than Loyd.

Moreover, they use the opportunity of her death to stereotype and malign a culture. Then why are Americans there? To &quot;civilize&quot; these people, with gun shots to the head?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello Sandra,</p>
<p>I could not find the same problem you spoke of regarding rape and domestic assault rates. The focus was a two-year period, and over that two-year period in which they gathered the statistics there was a very large increase.</p>
<p>Back to the original question you raised, since it raises what most other commentators have missed completely/conveniently.</p>
<p>Paula Loyd was supposedly a cultural specialist when it came to Afghanistan. She also had a degree in anthropology, not an advanced one, but a degree nonetheless. She had spent several years in Afghanistan. According to Paula Loyd herself, she was not subject to the same rules and standards as Afghan women:</p>
<p>”Sometimes I’ll be talking to the men in a village and they’ll turn to the interpreter and say, ‘Is that a man or a woman?’ But I haven’t had any problems with them. They’ve all been very nice,” Loyd said….Loyd said Afghans do not expect their societal norms to apply to her because she is not from their culture. ”So the fact that I’m a woman doesn’t mean I need to be in a burka and they can’t deal with me. They take me for who I am, they accept me for who I am. And they’re willing to work with me,” she said.</p>
<p>She apparently reflected this very thinking in speaking to Abdul Salam. Whatever Afghan norms may be regarding professional women and so forth, Loyd says they were not applied to her. This attack, therefore, cannot be understood as &#8220;another example&#8221; of how Afghan men treat women, and therefore the focus of so many American commentators is entirely misplaced to begin with &#8212; that is, if we believe Loyd.</p>
<p>If we do not believe Loyd, and most of her online mourners do not realize that they in fact undermine her credibility and her knowledge, then there are only two options available: Loyd was ignorant, and really did not understand Afghan culture, or, she did, she would have expected such an attack, and she was just stupid. Either way, her supposed mourners and sympathizers put her in this position, not me. Keep in mind, none of her teammates apparently thought anything was unusual about a local man speaking to Loyd, since none intervened immediately sensing possible danger.</p>
<p>Now, what do the many online American critics of Salam like to say repeatedly? The attack on Loyd is representative of their culture, which does not discriminate between local and foreign females, and all independent and professional females are to be targeted for murder. So they know better than Loyd.</p>
<p>Moreover, they use the opportunity of her death to stereotype and malign a culture. Then why are Americans there? To &#8220;civilize&#8221; these people, with gun shots to the head?</p>
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		<title>By: Maximilian Forte</title>
		<link>http://zeroanthropology.net/2009/02/12/dr-rat-defender-of-the-rat-people/#comment-3600</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Maximilian Forte]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Feb 2009 21:17:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://openanthropology.wordpress.com/?p=4465#comment-3600</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks very much for your reply Sandra. I will have to read the broader report then, given the question you raised.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks very much for your reply Sandra. I will have to read the broader report then, given the question you raised.</p>
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		<title>By: Sandra</title>
		<link>http://zeroanthropology.net/2009/02/12/dr-rat-defender-of-the-rat-people/#comment-3599</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sandra]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Feb 2009 20:38:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://openanthropology.wordpress.com/?p=4465#comment-3599</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Two things pop immediately to mind after reading the article you linked to:

1 - The statistics gathering changed so there is no way to know whether violence against women increased between the two test dates.

2 - Women have never been a priority in this country, or even on equal footing to men. So culturally, The violence is  allowed to happen.

Okay, and one more thing pops to mind, perhaps the point of your counterquestion  is to make me consider the similarities between US and Afgan society with regard to women.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Two things pop immediately to mind after reading the article you linked to:</p>
<p>1 &#8211; The statistics gathering changed so there is no way to know whether violence against women increased between the two test dates.</p>
<p>2 &#8211; Women have never been a priority in this country, or even on equal footing to men. So culturally, The violence is  allowed to happen.</p>
<p>Okay, and one more thing pops to mind, perhaps the point of your counterquestion  is to make me consider the similarities between US and Afgan society with regard to women.</p>
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		<title>By: Maximilian Forte</title>
		<link>http://zeroanthropology.net/2009/02/12/dr-rat-defender-of-the-rat-people/#comment-3582</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Maximilian Forte]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Feb 2009 00:56:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://openanthropology.wordpress.com/?p=4465#comment-3582</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[With respect to what Salam chose and why, none of us know anything because he was killed and therefore no one could discover an answer to the kind of question you are asking. What we do know is that Loyd&#039;s work in Afghanistan was known to many, or at least anyone with Internet access, that Loyd was working for the Human Terrain System, and that the Taliban claimed responsibility for the attack. Michael Bhatia was also killed in Afghanistan, and as you guessed, he was male. All we know is that Salam did in fact choose a target, and this target was not just any female, but one who worked as part of the U.S. military occupation aiding counterinsurgency efforts against people like Salam.

I am wondering if you could answer this question for me in turn: What do you think is the cultural significance in the U.S. that, while other crimes are decreasing, the rate of rapes and domestic violence against women is soaring? See:

http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2008/12/18/us-soaring-rates-rape-and-violence-against-women
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With respect to what Salam chose and why, none of us know anything because he was killed and therefore no one could discover an answer to the kind of question you are asking. What we do know is that Loyd&#8217;s work in Afghanistan was known to many, or at least anyone with Internet access, that Loyd was working for the Human Terrain System, and that the Taliban claimed responsibility for the attack. Michael Bhatia was also killed in Afghanistan, and as you guessed, he was male. All we know is that Salam did in fact choose a target, and this target was not just any female, but one who worked as part of the U.S. military occupation aiding counterinsurgency efforts against people like Salam.</p>
<p>I am wondering if you could answer this question for me in turn: What do you think is the cultural significance in the U.S. that, while other crimes are decreasing, the rate of rapes and domestic violence against women is soaring? See:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2008/12/18/us-soaring-rates-rape-and-violence-against-women" rel="nofollow">http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2008/12/18/us-soaring-rates-rape-and-violence-against-women</a></p>
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		<title>By: Sandra</title>
		<link>http://zeroanthropology.net/2009/02/12/dr-rat-defender-of-the-rat-people/#comment-3581</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sandra]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Feb 2009 23:42:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://openanthropology.wordpress.com/?p=4465#comment-3581</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[interesting and well-explained counter argument to Satchel&#039;s points. Something that struck me, and maybe you&#039;ve covered it in another post - You mention how the US culture highlights the gender in this tragedy.  What is the cultural significance for the Afgan, in choosing a female target?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>interesting and well-explained counter argument to Satchel&#8217;s points. Something that struck me, and maybe you&#8217;ve covered it in another post &#8211; You mention how the US culture highlights the gender in this tragedy.  What is the cultural significance for the Afgan, in choosing a female target?</p>
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		<title>By: Maximilian Forte</title>
		<link>http://zeroanthropology.net/2009/02/12/dr-rat-defender-of-the-rat-people/#comment-3556</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Maximilian Forte]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Feb 2009 06:50:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://openanthropology.wordpress.com/?p=4465#comment-3556</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I suspected there was a reason for yet another spike in interest in the story surrounding Paula Loyd. I could not figure out the source of Satchel&#039;s quote, which sounded like something I wrote, but with some added details that are incorrect.

Satchel&#039;s quote comes from a story in today&#039;s Boston Globe:

&lt;strong&gt;Anthropologist&#039;s war death reverberates&lt;/strong&gt;
http://www.boston.com/news/world/middleeast/articles/2009/02/12/anthropologists_war_death_reverberates/?page=full

Just for the record, I am not an Assistant Professor. I have tenure, and I am an Associate Professor. My departmental website has not been updated in many ages. The article above is in error on this point.

The funny irony with the Boston Globe piece is that they also link to my YouTube video of Paula Loyd. While some of the comments rant about my quote (amusing stuff!), what happens when they go to the video? They see me staring right back at them, and a video that serves as a virtual memorial for Loyd, all of the comments having been approved by me, without challenge. The simpler minds will boggle.

Thanks for the comment above. I was hoping Satchel would return and take me up on my offer of having the last word. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suspected there was a reason for yet another spike in interest in the story surrounding Paula Loyd. I could not figure out the source of Satchel&#8217;s quote, which sounded like something I wrote, but with some added details that are incorrect.</p>
<p>Satchel&#8217;s quote comes from a story in today&#8217;s Boston Globe:</p>
<p><strong>Anthropologist&#8217;s war death reverberates</strong><br />
<a href="http://www.boston.com/news/world/middleeast/articles/2009/02/12/anthropologists_war_death_reverberates/?page=full" rel="nofollow">http://www.boston.com/news/world/middleeast/articles/2009/02/12/anthropologists_war_death_reverberates/?page=full</a></p>
<p>Just for the record, I am not an Assistant Professor. I have tenure, and I am an Associate Professor. My departmental website has not been updated in many ages. The article above is in error on this point.</p>
<p>The funny irony with the Boston Globe piece is that they also link to my YouTube video of Paula Loyd. While some of the comments rant about my quote (amusing stuff!), what happens when they go to the video? They see me staring right back at them, and a video that serves as a virtual memorial for Loyd, all of the comments having been approved by me, without challenge. The simpler minds will boggle.</p>
<p>Thanks for the comment above. I was hoping Satchel would return and take me up on my offer of having the last word.</p>
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		<title>By: Claude Horvath</title>
		<link>http://zeroanthropology.net/2009/02/12/dr-rat-defender-of-the-rat-people/#comment-3554</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Claude Horvath]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Feb 2009 00:32:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://openanthropology.wordpress.com/?p=4465#comment-3554</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The comments of Prof. Forte (or Mr.) are refreshingly humane and counter-intuitive.  I’m now at a public computer, and time has almost elapsed.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The comments of Prof. Forte (or Mr.) are refreshingly humane and counter-intuitive.  I’m now at a public computer, and time has almost elapsed.</p>
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