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	<title>Comments on: R2P: Responsibility to Protect</title>
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	<link>http://zeroanthropology.net/2009/08/03/r2p-responsibility-to-protect/</link>
	<description>Turning and turning in the widening gyre &#124; The falcon cannot hear the falconer &#124; Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold &#124; Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world &#124; The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere &#124; The ceremony of innocence is drowned &#124; The best lack all conviction, while the worst &#124; Are full of passionate intensity. -- W.B. Yeats, The Second Coming</description>
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		<title>By: In Afghanistan It&#8217;s Now All About the Little Girls &#171; OPEN ANTHROPOLOGY</title>
		<link>http://zeroanthropology.net/2009/08/03/r2p-responsibility-to-protect/#comment-6493</link>
		<dc:creator>In Afghanistan It&#8217;s Now All About the Little Girls &#171; OPEN ANTHROPOLOGY</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 01:23:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://openanthropology.wordpress.com/?p=6737#comment-6493</guid>
		<description>[...] in his speech, the predominant motif is no longer one of bagging the enemy, but rather the &#8220;responsibility to protect&#8221; &#8212; to protect civilians&#8230;civilians that such protection in fact puts in [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] in his speech, the predominant motif is no longer one of bagging the enemy, but rather the &#8220;responsibility to protect&#8221; &#8212; to protect civilians&#8230;civilians that such protection in fact puts in [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Maximilian Forte</title>
		<link>http://zeroanthropology.net/2009/08/03/r2p-responsibility-to-protect/#comment-6432</link>
		<dc:creator>Maximilian Forte</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2009 23:03:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://openanthropology.wordpress.com/?p=6737#comment-6432</guid>
		<description>Interesting comments, Ricardo and Marc. Marc, I am thinking that if the obligatory intention (responsibility) was originally there, then subsequently codified in a UN Sec. Council Resolution, then it remains available to be reactivated whenever they (members of the Security Council) think it can be feasibly implemented against a particular state.

Aside from that, this very slanted and partial attempt at global governance and global policing is going to further isolate the UN. I recall how almost as soon as the cologne &amp; Campari technocrats of the UN moved in to set up their management HQ in Baghdad, soon after the invasion, their place was totally leveled and they lost many people in that &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/08/19/sprj.irq.demello/index.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;bombing&lt;/a&gt;, including one of their most illustrious technocrat, Sergio Vieira de Mello. What amazed me is how the UN assumed that locals would not want harsh revenge after the UN&#039;s awful record in its sanctions regime against Iraq. Multiply that history a few more times, and pretty soon the UN will be seen by many more people as a body for the rich and powerful, with some Third World spectators  and occasional performers to add some colour to the proceedings.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting comments, Ricardo and Marc. Marc, I am thinking that if the obligatory intention (responsibility) was originally there, then subsequently codified in a UN Sec. Council Resolution, then it remains available to be reactivated whenever they (members of the Security Council) think it can be feasibly implemented against a particular state.</p>
<p>Aside from that, this very slanted and partial attempt at global governance and global policing is going to further isolate the UN. I recall how almost as soon as the cologne &amp; Campari technocrats of the UN moved in to set up their management HQ in Baghdad, soon after the invasion, their place was totally leveled and they lost many people in that <a href="http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/08/19/sprj.irq.demello/index.html" rel="nofollow">bombing</a>, including one of their most illustrious technocrat, Sergio Vieira de Mello. What amazed me is how the UN assumed that locals would not want harsh revenge after the UN&#8217;s awful record in its sanctions regime against Iraq. Multiply that history a few more times, and pretty soon the UN will be seen by many more people as a body for the rich and powerful, with some Third World spectators  and occasional performers to add some colour to the proceedings.</p>
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		<title>By: Marc Tyrrell</title>
		<link>http://zeroanthropology.net/2009/08/03/r2p-responsibility-to-protect/#comment-6429</link>
		<dc:creator>Marc Tyrrell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2009 19:20:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://openanthropology.wordpress.com/?p=6737#comment-6429</guid>
		<description>Ricardo, I agree that that was the initial intent of R2P, i.e. the sense that If X happens, we (the UN) have the right to take action in contravention of local sovereignty.  I would even agree that when it was initially adopted, that sense of obligation was present.  I would argue, though, that that initial obligatory intention has disappeared as a result of the way the UN is structured.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ricardo, I agree that that was the initial intent of R2P, i.e. the sense that If X happens, we (the UN) have the right to take action in contravention of local sovereignty.  I would even agree that when it was initially adopted, that sense of obligation was present.  I would argue, though, that that initial obligatory intention has disappeared as a result of the way the UN is structured.</p>
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		<title>By: Ricardo Arredondo</title>
		<link>http://zeroanthropology.net/2009/08/03/r2p-responsibility-to-protect/#comment-6428</link>
		<dc:creator>Ricardo Arredondo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2009 19:05:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://openanthropology.wordpress.com/?p=6737#comment-6428</guid>
		<description>Max, I believe that Marc has not grasped the R2P concept adequatly. R2P means an obligation (which is the other side of the coin of a &quot;right&quot;) which is primarily in the concerned State. Should national authorities manifestly fail to protect their populations from genocide, war crimes, ethnic cleansing and crimes against humanity, then there is a subsidiary obligation on the international community to protect populations from being subject of these four crimes.

I apologize if my English is not clear enough.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Max, I believe that Marc has not grasped the R2P concept adequatly. R2P means an obligation (which is the other side of the coin of a &#8220;right&#8221;) which is primarily in the concerned State. Should national authorities manifestly fail to protect their populations from genocide, war crimes, ethnic cleansing and crimes against humanity, then there is a subsidiary obligation on the international community to protect populations from being subject of these four crimes.</p>
<p>I apologize if my English is not clear enough.</p>
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		<title>By: Maximilian Forte</title>
		<link>http://zeroanthropology.net/2009/08/03/r2p-responsibility-to-protect/#comment-6426</link>
		<dc:creator>Maximilian Forte</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2009 15:24:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://openanthropology.wordpress.com/?p=6737#comment-6426</guid>
		<description>Very interesting points Marc, especially about the issue of &quot;right&quot; and the transformation away from peace keeping. Any perceived selectivity will doom the stated good intentions of R2P, in some ways similar to the way the ICC (once a hit with African states) has come to be seen by many African statesmen as a neo-colonial tool that is obsessed with Africa. However, some R2P advocates, and I sense this most in the case of Gareth Evans, don&#039;t seem prepared to handle criticisms in a reasonable and honest manner, and that too will likely doom the good intentions they claim to have.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very interesting points Marc, especially about the issue of &#8220;right&#8221; and the transformation away from peace keeping. Any perceived selectivity will doom the stated good intentions of R2P, in some ways similar to the way the ICC (once a hit with African states) has come to be seen by many African statesmen as a neo-colonial tool that is obsessed with Africa. However, some R2P advocates, and I sense this most in the case of Gareth Evans, don&#8217;t seem prepared to handle criticisms in a reasonable and honest manner, and that too will likely doom the good intentions they claim to have.</p>
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		<title>By: Marc Tyrrell</title>
		<link>http://zeroanthropology.net/2009/08/03/r2p-responsibility-to-protect/#comment-6424</link>
		<dc:creator>Marc Tyrrell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2009 14:42:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://openanthropology.wordpress.com/?p=6737#comment-6424</guid>
		<description>One of the more interesting problems with the R2P doctrine is that it is stated as a &quot;Right&quot; and not a &quot;Responsibility&quot;.  This allows a lot of freedom in when, where and by whom it will be applied, especially since such an action can be vetoed by any permanent member of the Security Council.  This leads us directly into the realm of international power politics to the point that R2P will only be applied against &lt;i&gt;de facto&lt;/i&gt; non-aligned groups.

Max, you note how we have shifted away from the Peacekeeping role, and you&#039;re quite right, we have.  But, I would suggest that the Peacekeeping role itself was a post-WW II artifact of Cold War politics and, once the environment changed, so to did the role of various national militaries.

What concerns me and, I think, you too, is how R2P will be used as an excuse to carve up the globe in a manner similar to how it was done in the 19th century.  While it bothers me in too many ways to go into right now, one of those is that it could easily, IMO, fail in the short run and, through the process of failing, destroy the societies that are involved in it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of the more interesting problems with the R2P doctrine is that it is stated as a &#8220;Right&#8221; and not a &#8220;Responsibility&#8221;.  This allows a lot of freedom in when, where and by whom it will be applied, especially since such an action can be vetoed by any permanent member of the Security Council.  This leads us directly into the realm of international power politics to the point that R2P will only be applied against <i>de facto</i> non-aligned groups.</p>
<p>Max, you note how we have shifted away from the Peacekeeping role, and you&#8217;re quite right, we have.  But, I would suggest that the Peacekeeping role itself was a post-WW II artifact of Cold War politics and, once the environment changed, so to did the role of various national militaries.</p>
<p>What concerns me and, I think, you too, is how R2P will be used as an excuse to carve up the globe in a manner similar to how it was done in the 19th century.  While it bothers me in too many ways to go into right now, one of those is that it could easily, IMO, fail in the short run and, through the process of failing, destroy the societies that are involved in it.</p>
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		<title>By: Maximilian Forte</title>
		<link>http://zeroanthropology.net/2009/08/03/r2p-responsibility-to-protect/#comment-6422</link>
		<dc:creator>Maximilian Forte</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2009 13:47:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://openanthropology.wordpress.com/?p=6737#comment-6422</guid>
		<description>Great, thanks very much for that link, I had not seen that article before and it is right on target.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great, thanks very much for that link, I had not seen that article before and it is right on target.</p>
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		<title>By: Darryl</title>
		<link>http://zeroanthropology.net/2009/08/03/r2p-responsibility-to-protect/#comment-6419</link>
		<dc:creator>Darryl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2009 12:38:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://openanthropology.wordpress.com/?p=6737#comment-6419</guid>
		<description>Michael Neumann has a good (though it could&#039;ve used some editing) critique of the incoherence of what he calls Ignatieff&#039;s &quot;He-manitarianism&quot; here:
http://www.counterpunch.org/neumann12082003.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael Neumann has a good (though it could&#8217;ve used some editing) critique of the incoherence of what he calls Ignatieff&#8217;s &#8220;He-manitarianism&#8221; here:<br />
<a href="http://www.counterpunch.org/neumann12082003.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.counterpunch.org/neumann12082003.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Canada has a Responsibility to Protect? &#171; One Day for the Watchman</title>
		<link>http://zeroanthropology.net/2009/08/03/r2p-responsibility-to-protect/#comment-6412</link>
		<dc:creator>Canada has a Responsibility to Protect? &#171; One Day for the Watchman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2009 01:35:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://openanthropology.wordpress.com/?p=6737#comment-6412</guid>
		<description>[...] Canada&#8217;s own imported/domestic &#8220;new imperialism&#8221; advocate will have us join preemptive military actions so that unruly Third World countries who fail to follow the Canadian model can be taught a lesson. Read here for more&#8230; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Canada&#8217;s own imported/domestic &#8220;new imperialism&#8221; advocate will have us join preemptive military actions so that unruly Third World countries who fail to follow the Canadian model can be taught a lesson. Read here for more&#8230; [...]</p>
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