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	<title>Comments on: Let the Clone Wars Begin: How the Open Anthropology Project can be Cooperative</title>
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	<link>http://zeroanthropology.net/2009/09/02/let-the-clone-wars-begin-how-the-open-anthropology-project-can-be-cooperative/</link>
	<description>Turning and turning in the widening gyre &#124; The falcon cannot hear the falconer &#124; Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold &#124; Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world &#124; The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere &#124; The ceremony of innocence is drowned &#124; The best lack all conviction, while the worst &#124; Are full of passionate intensity. -- W.B. Yeats, The Second Coming</description>
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		<title>By: Maximilian Forte</title>
		<link>http://zeroanthropology.net/2009/09/02/let-the-clone-wars-begin-how-the-open-anthropology-project-can-be-cooperative/#comment-7182</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Maximilian Forte]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 14:02:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://openanthropology.wordpress.com/?p=7307#comment-7182</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Just a note for others, I deleted the ones I created and asked others to do the same. I think the point was made long enough. The interesting thing that we discovered is that while there can be no copyright on titles, NING which itself recognizes that fact does not allow one to create a network with the exact same title as one that is already existing. It does not seem to be tied to any URL issue since one can choose a URL that is independent of the title, that is, it is not an automatically generated derivative of the title.

Interesting, right? *Yawn*]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just a note for others, I deleted the ones I created and asked others to do the same. I think the point was made long enough. The interesting thing that we discovered is that while there can be no copyright on titles, NING which itself recognizes that fact does not allow one to create a network with the exact same title as one that is already existing. It does not seem to be tied to any URL issue since one can choose a URL that is independent of the title, that is, it is not an automatically generated derivative of the title.</p>
<p>Interesting, right? *Yawn*</p>
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		<title>By: ryan</title>
		<link>http://zeroanthropology.net/2009/09/02/let-the-clone-wars-begin-how-the-open-anthropology-project-can-be-cooperative/#comment-7096</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ryan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Sep 2009 23:08:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://openanthropology.wordpress.com/?p=7307#comment-7096</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[ha-ya, i know those are all fake groups.  but, ironically, they are just as functional as the oac is.  it would be hilarious if one of them took off on their own.

i just read through the post on jeremy&#039;s site.  just today i deleted my account there at OAC, and my only regret is that all of my conversations went into thin air with that deletion.  i had kept the account for that sole purpose, but really do not want to be tied to their deal in any way.  pretty sad that it all worked out like that. 

the responses that i got from hart and others were really disappointing and strange.  there were also responses from some others that were extremely narrow-minded and one-sided.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ha-ya, i know those are all fake groups.  but, ironically, they are just as functional as the oac is.  it would be hilarious if one of them took off on their own.</p>
<p>i just read through the post on jeremy&#8217;s site.  just today i deleted my account there at OAC, and my only regret is that all of my conversations went into thin air with that deletion.  i had kept the account for that sole purpose, but really do not want to be tied to their deal in any way.  pretty sad that it all worked out like that. </p>
<p>the responses that i got from hart and others were really disappointing and strange.  there were also responses from some others that were extremely narrow-minded and one-sided.</p>
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		<title>By: Maximilian Forte</title>
		<link>http://zeroanthropology.net/2009/09/02/let-the-clone-wars-begin-how-the-open-anthropology-project-can-be-cooperative/#comment-7095</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Maximilian Forte]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Sep 2009 17:37:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://openanthropology.wordpress.com/?p=7307#comment-7095</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Lol, but keep in mind those are joke sites, and I personally don&#039;t have plans to become active in any of them, beyond getting a few of them started and collaborating with Astrid in other respects. The really funny irony would be if one day one of them takes off with a life of its own.

Speaking of jokes, I agree that the vote was a joke. It was a deceitful way for Hart to finally pay some lip service to &quot;democracy&quot;, even though the choice of questions, voting threshold, etc. was done in the usual undemocratic fashion, and that was also pointed out to the administrators by some of their own members, who were promptly ignored of course.

The original problem was not created by all of the members of the OAC, but by Hart&#039;s rush to control. It was his mistake, and his alone to fix. It would be like you accusing an advertising executive of false advertising, and after he acknowledges there may indeed be a problem (mainly, the fact that you noticed is the problem), he says:

&lt;blockquote&gt;No, you know what? Let me ask everyone in my company to vote on whether I should fix the mistake. How about that! They mostly agree with me.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Most of those who commented had apparently taken little or no time to inform themselves of the issues, read both sides, reflect and balance opinions. It was like looking at one hand clapping and applauding itself for doing so. Nonetheless, there were still about 80 out of 210 people who agreed that they should change their name.

As you say: &quot;Since there is no agreed upon plan, idea, goal, vision, direction, or even conception of what to do with the site, the name doesn’t even matter.&quot; It was merely an excuse for them to score some petty personal and cheap political points. Some of them don&#039;t even know whether they really disagree with me, as in the case of those who praised my article...not knowing it was mine since it has been plagiarized.

And yes, I withdraw my statement that I am not accusing them of plagiarism. I am now:

http://openanthcoop.ning.com/group/theanthropologyofanthropology/forum/topics/world-anthropology

Let me add these statements as well:

Those who wish to understand better, can also see Jeremy Trombley’s post, &lt;strong&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://jmtrom.blogspot.com/2009/09/why-i-left-oac.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;“Why I Left the OAC,”&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/strong&gt; and my responses:

http://jmtrom.blogspot.com/2009/09/why-i-left-oac.html?showComment=1252507189138#c6627144001591460659

and

http://jmtrom.blogspot.com/2009/09/why-i-left-oac.html?showComment=1252507226595#c1282797618752893642]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lol, but keep in mind those are joke sites, and I personally don&#8217;t have plans to become active in any of them, beyond getting a few of them started and collaborating with Astrid in other respects. The really funny irony would be if one day one of them takes off with a life of its own.</p>
<p>Speaking of jokes, I agree that the vote was a joke. It was a deceitful way for Hart to finally pay some lip service to &#8220;democracy&#8221;, even though the choice of questions, voting threshold, etc. was done in the usual undemocratic fashion, and that was also pointed out to the administrators by some of their own members, who were promptly ignored of course.</p>
<p>The original problem was not created by all of the members of the OAC, but by Hart&#8217;s rush to control. It was his mistake, and his alone to fix. It would be like you accusing an advertising executive of false advertising, and after he acknowledges there may indeed be a problem (mainly, the fact that you noticed is the problem), he says:</p>
<blockquote><p>No, you know what? Let me ask everyone in my company to vote on whether I should fix the mistake. How about that! They mostly agree with me.</p></blockquote>
<p>Most of those who commented had apparently taken little or no time to inform themselves of the issues, read both sides, reflect and balance opinions. It was like looking at one hand clapping and applauding itself for doing so. Nonetheless, there were still about 80 out of 210 people who agreed that they should change their name.</p>
<p>As you say: &#8220;Since there is no agreed upon plan, idea, goal, vision, direction, or even conception of what to do with the site, the name doesn’t even matter.&#8221; It was merely an excuse for them to score some petty personal and cheap political points. Some of them don&#8217;t even know whether they really disagree with me, as in the case of those who praised my article&#8230;not knowing it was mine since it has been plagiarized.</p>
<p>And yes, I withdraw my statement that I am not accusing them of plagiarism. I am now:</p>
<p><a href="http://openanthcoop.ning.com/group/theanthropologyofanthropology/forum/topics/world-anthropology" rel="nofollow">http://openanthcoop.ning.com/group/theanthropologyofanthropology/forum/topics/world-anthropology</a></p>
<p>Let me add these statements as well:</p>
<p>Those who wish to understand better, can also see Jeremy Trombley’s post, <strong><a href="http://jmtrom.blogspot.com/2009/09/why-i-left-oac.html" rel="nofollow">“Why I Left the OAC,”</a></strong> and my responses:</p>
<p><a href="http://jmtrom.blogspot.com/2009/09/why-i-left-oac.html?showComment=1252507189138#c6627144001591460659" rel="nofollow">http://jmtrom.blogspot.com/2009/09/why-i-left-oac.html?showComment=1252507189138#c6627144001591460659</a></p>
<p>and</p>
<p><a href="http://jmtrom.blogspot.com/2009/09/why-i-left-oac.html?showComment=1252507226595#c1282797618752893642" rel="nofollow">http://jmtrom.blogspot.com/2009/09/why-i-left-oac.html?showComment=1252507226595#c1282797618752893642</a></p>
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		<title>By: Maximilian Forte</title>
		<link>http://zeroanthropology.net/2009/09/02/let-the-clone-wars-begin-how-the-open-anthropology-project-can-be-cooperative/#comment-7094</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Maximilian Forte]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Sep 2009 17:25:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://openanthropology.wordpress.com/?p=7307#comment-7094</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It was an old post, but to keep it from distracting from the Afghanistan articles, I dated the post to 1960. Now I put it back to its real date and so it appears in feeds as if it had been just published today, even if it is off the main page as I wanted.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It was an old post, but to keep it from distracting from the Afghanistan articles, I dated the post to 1960. Now I put it back to its real date and so it appears in feeds as if it had been just published today, even if it is off the main page as I wanted.</p>
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		<title>By: ryan</title>
		<link>http://zeroanthropology.net/2009/09/02/let-the-clone-wars-begin-how-the-open-anthropology-project-can-be-cooperative/#comment-7093</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ryan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Sep 2009 16:12:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://openanthropology.wordpress.com/?p=7307#comment-7093</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[wait a sec.  was that an old post?

sorry for the rehash if it was.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>wait a sec.  was that an old post?</p>
<p>sorry for the rehash if it was.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: ryan</title>
		<link>http://zeroanthropology.net/2009/09/02/let-the-clone-wars-begin-how-the-open-anthropology-project-can-be-cooperative/#comment-7092</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ryan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Sep 2009 15:42:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://openanthropology.wordpress.com/?p=7307#comment-7092</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Meanwhile, at the OAC...well....you can post photos of yourself and talk about anthropology in chat rooms.  But it&#039;s not just anthro Facebook.  It&#039;s &quot;open anthropology.&quot;

I tried to stir up some folks to get them to think about what exactly they were trying to do there, but all of my posts ended up in the doldrums of theoretical nonsense.  It&#039;s like a big machine that curtails ideas with &quot;the endless openness and possibilities of the internet.&quot;  So many possibilities that nobody does anything.  Yay.  It IS like an endless anthropology conference, just without the travel expenses.

The &quot;vote&quot; was a joke, as was the defense of the name of the site.  Since there is no agreed upon plan, idea, goal, vision, direction, or even conception of what to do with the site, the name doesn&#039;t even matter.  I ran into so many people who were telling me that I was being closed minded by asking what they wanted to do with the site--the answers I received were about some vague idea that there were no limits, and that people could do ANYTHING they want with &quot;anthropology.&quot;

For me, THAT was part of the problem.

Now my only issue is whether to join the un-cooperative or the union.  hmmm.  maybe the association.  it&#039;s all so WIDE OPEN max.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Meanwhile, at the OAC&#8230;well&#8230;.you can post photos of yourself and talk about anthropology in chat rooms.  But it&#8217;s not just anthro Facebook.  It&#8217;s &#8220;open anthropology.&#8221;</p>
<p>I tried to stir up some folks to get them to think about what exactly they were trying to do there, but all of my posts ended up in the doldrums of theoretical nonsense.  It&#8217;s like a big machine that curtails ideas with &#8220;the endless openness and possibilities of the internet.&#8221;  So many possibilities that nobody does anything.  Yay.  It IS like an endless anthropology conference, just without the travel expenses.</p>
<p>The &#8220;vote&#8221; was a joke, as was the defense of the name of the site.  Since there is no agreed upon plan, idea, goal, vision, direction, or even conception of what to do with the site, the name doesn&#8217;t even matter.  I ran into so many people who were telling me that I was being closed minded by asking what they wanted to do with the site&#8211;the answers I received were about some vague idea that there were no limits, and that people could do ANYTHING they want with &#8220;anthropology.&#8221;</p>
<p>For me, THAT was part of the problem.</p>
<p>Now my only issue is whether to join the un-cooperative or the union.  hmmm.  maybe the association.  it&#8217;s all so WIDE OPEN max.</p>
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