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	<title>Comments on: Afghanistan&#8217;s Eighth Anniversary with Another Crumbling Empire</title>
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	<description>Turning and turning in the widening gyre &#124; The falcon cannot hear the falconer &#124; Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold &#124; Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world &#124; The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere &#124; The ceremony of innocence is drowned &#124; The best lack all conviction, while the worst &#124; Are full of passionate intensity. -- W.B. Yeats, The Second Coming</description>
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		<title>By: Maximilian Forte</title>
		<link>http://zeroanthropology.net/2009/10/07/afghanistans-eighth-anniversary-with-another-crumbling-empire/#comment-7392</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Maximilian Forte]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 14:26:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://openanthropology.wordpress.com/?p=7715#comment-7392</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I agree with most of what you say Tstarz, but I thought this was a little over stated: &quot;there is no problem worse than our own citizens bad mouthing the actual soldiers themselves.&quot; I think there are many worse problems with this war, like citizens not doing enough to bring the war to an end, and citizens still signing up to go fight in the same war. The soldiers are doing a job they chose to do, and for which they get paid for, and they are paid by the taxes of even those very few who bad mouth them as you say. The troops are not sacrosanct. And what applies to one side, applies to the other -- so the good citizens would need to also stop bad mouthing the mujahidin resistance who are fighting to regain control over their own country, a cause which American patriots should readily understand, and used to understand when the occupiers were Soviets. I understand that you can better identify with American soldiers because you know some personally, but nobody here is sacred, and certainly not those who volunteer to go fight over someone else&#039;s home.

I would only say to avoid morbid and macabre celebrations of the deaths of anyone on any side, because it cheapens life.

As for young patriots who continue the struggle, I hope you are also including those who resist deployment to Afghanistan.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with most of what you say Tstarz, but I thought this was a little over stated: &#8220;there is no problem worse than our own citizens bad mouthing the actual soldiers themselves.&#8221; I think there are many worse problems with this war, like citizens not doing enough to bring the war to an end, and citizens still signing up to go fight in the same war. The soldiers are doing a job they chose to do, and for which they get paid for, and they are paid by the taxes of even those very few who bad mouth them as you say. The troops are not sacrosanct. And what applies to one side, applies to the other &#8212; so the good citizens would need to also stop bad mouthing the mujahidin resistance who are fighting to regain control over their own country, a cause which American patriots should readily understand, and used to understand when the occupiers were Soviets. I understand that you can better identify with American soldiers because you know some personally, but nobody here is sacred, and certainly not those who volunteer to go fight over someone else&#8217;s home.</p>
<p>I would only say to avoid morbid and macabre celebrations of the deaths of anyone on any side, because it cheapens life.</p>
<p>As for young patriots who continue the struggle, I hope you are also including those who resist deployment to Afghanistan.</p>
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		<title>By: Tstarz</title>
		<link>http://zeroanthropology.net/2009/10/07/afghanistans-eighth-anniversary-with-another-crumbling-empire/#comment-7384</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tstarz]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Oct 2009 20:59:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://openanthropology.wordpress.com/?p=7715#comment-7384</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This war is &quot;lost&quot; not because we are overpowered but because we have confused and exhausted ourselves. The Afghan people have become very skilled in letting an enemy destroy itself. They tuck themselves away in mountains becoming difficult to track, and they laugh from above as their enemies run around like chickens with their heads cut off. Obviously the impressive military technology that comes with an even more impressive price tag is making no difference what so ever. The war has far too many problems to list, but there is no problem worse than our own citizens bad mouthing the actual soldiers themselves. The individual solider cannot change the outcome of the war, but those are the ones dying and suffering at the hands of the Government officials who the soldiers will never meet in their entire lives. The war started when I was in sixth grade and I am now a sophomore in college. Between 6th grade and present day, I&#039;ve grown up with best friends and fellow peers who are now fighting over seas. These are kids I’ve shared laughs and tears with and some of them are still kids! For 8 years now, far too many young patriots, both men and women, have given up their lives for a cause that is questionable to say the least. I am against the war 100%, but I will never stop supporting and caring for my fellow young Americans risking their lives in the line of duty. Even though the war seems petty, grueling, and pointless, it is important to remember that no matter how long we are at war, our young patriots continue the struggle.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This war is &#8220;lost&#8221; not because we are overpowered but because we have confused and exhausted ourselves. The Afghan people have become very skilled in letting an enemy destroy itself. They tuck themselves away in mountains becoming difficult to track, and they laugh from above as their enemies run around like chickens with their heads cut off. Obviously the impressive military technology that comes with an even more impressive price tag is making no difference what so ever. The war has far too many problems to list, but there is no problem worse than our own citizens bad mouthing the actual soldiers themselves. The individual solider cannot change the outcome of the war, but those are the ones dying and suffering at the hands of the Government officials who the soldiers will never meet in their entire lives. The war started when I was in sixth grade and I am now a sophomore in college. Between 6th grade and present day, I&#8217;ve grown up with best friends and fellow peers who are now fighting over seas. These are kids I’ve shared laughs and tears with and some of them are still kids! For 8 years now, far too many young patriots, both men and women, have given up their lives for a cause that is questionable to say the least. I am against the war 100%, but I will never stop supporting and caring for my fellow young Americans risking their lives in the line of duty. Even though the war seems petty, grueling, and pointless, it is important to remember that no matter how long we are at war, our young patriots continue the struggle.</p>
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		<title>By: Frenchguy</title>
		<link>http://zeroanthropology.net/2009/10/07/afghanistans-eighth-anniversary-with-another-crumbling-empire/#comment-7285</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Frenchguy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Oct 2009 12:37:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://openanthropology.wordpress.com/?p=7715#comment-7285</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[Oops, I wanted to write &quot;comfortable nap&quot;, not &quot;snap&quot;.]

Yes, maybe the only true post-moderns. But it is not the first time that an heavily armed giant army gets owned by less numerous poor villagers, and it happened not only in Afghanistan. 
But fore sure, this place is particularly not a good one for an empire.  In what was called &quot;Bactria&quot;,  Alexander the Great himself tried, but &quot;never successfully subdued the people&quot; (from wikipedia article about &quot;bactria&quot;).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[Oops, I wanted to write "comfortable nap", not "snap".]</p>
<p>Yes, maybe the only true post-moderns. But it is not the first time that an heavily armed giant army gets owned by less numerous poor villagers, and it happened not only in Afghanistan.<br />
But fore sure, this place is particularly not a good one for an empire.  In what was called &#8220;Bactria&#8221;,  Alexander the Great himself tried, but &#8220;never successfully subdued the people&#8221; (from wikipedia article about &#8220;bactria&#8221;).</p>
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		<title>By: Stacie</title>
		<link>http://zeroanthropology.net/2009/10/07/afghanistans-eighth-anniversary-with-another-crumbling-empire/#comment-7284</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Stacie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Oct 2009 12:15:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://openanthropology.wordpress.com/?p=7715#comment-7284</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[LOL, yes, there&#039;s still HOPE. If only I had a $400,000/yr salary I might be able to wine and dine my way up the political ladder before I kick the bucket.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LOL, yes, there&#8217;s still HOPE. If only I had a $400,000/yr salary I might be able to wine and dine my way up the political ladder before I kick the bucket.</p>
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		<title>By: Maximilian Forte</title>
		<link>http://zeroanthropology.net/2009/10/07/afghanistans-eighth-anniversary-with-another-crumbling-empire/#comment-7283</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Maximilian Forte]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Oct 2009 02:07:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://openanthropology.wordpress.com/?p=7715#comment-7283</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Stacie, I liked this one: &quot;it’s tough work being an American&quot;! Yes, but cheer up, at least you can still get a Nobel Peace Prize for doing absolutely nothing positive at all.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stacie, I liked this one: &#8220;it’s tough work being an American&#8221;! Yes, but cheer up, at least you can still get a Nobel Peace Prize for doing absolutely nothing positive at all.</p>
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		<title>By: Maximilian Forte</title>
		<link>http://zeroanthropology.net/2009/10/07/afghanistans-eighth-anniversary-with-another-crumbling-empire/#comment-7282</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Maximilian Forte]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Oct 2009 02:04:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://openanthropology.wordpress.com/?p=7715#comment-7282</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks very much Clint.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks very much Clint.</p>
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		<title>By: Clint</title>
		<link>http://zeroanthropology.net/2009/10/07/afghanistans-eighth-anniversary-with-another-crumbling-empire/#comment-7281</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Clint]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Oct 2009 01:12:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://openanthropology.wordpress.com/?p=7715#comment-7281</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Excellent insight, Max.  A great resource for statistics and quotes, to boot.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent insight, Max.  A great resource for statistics and quotes, to boot.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Stacie</title>
		<link>http://zeroanthropology.net/2009/10/07/afghanistans-eighth-anniversary-with-another-crumbling-empire/#comment-7278</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Stacie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Oct 2009 21:50:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://openanthropology.wordpress.com/?p=7715#comment-7278</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;If the United States loses too many more wars, its citizens may wake up...&quot; *yawns*... *sips coffee*... You know, it&#039;s tough work being an American. 

I really shouldn&#039;t have to worry about what&#039;s going on in other parts of the world any more than I care what my neighbors do in their own houses. Unfortunately, America&#039;s global interconnections make me accountable for all kinds of imperialism, some of which I&#039;m probably not even aware of. At least consumer products in a store are things I voluntarily purchase. I could decide not to buy certain products if I don&#039;t like what&#039;s going on at the production end. Taxes, on the other hand, are pulled out of my direct deposit every payday to go to whatever damn cause the government wants to support. The system puts a huge burden of guilt on Americans who just want to live their lives in peace without worrying about what&#039;s going on in other parts of the world.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;If the United States loses too many more wars, its citizens may wake up&#8230;&#8221; *yawns*&#8230; *sips coffee*&#8230; You know, it&#8217;s tough work being an American. </p>
<p>I really shouldn&#8217;t have to worry about what&#8217;s going on in other parts of the world any more than I care what my neighbors do in their own houses. Unfortunately, America&#8217;s global interconnections make me accountable for all kinds of imperialism, some of which I&#8217;m probably not even aware of. At least consumer products in a store are things I voluntarily purchase. I could decide not to buy certain products if I don&#8217;t like what&#8217;s going on at the production end. Taxes, on the other hand, are pulled out of my direct deposit every payday to go to whatever damn cause the government wants to support. The system puts a huge burden of guilt on Americans who just want to live their lives in peace without worrying about what&#8217;s going on in other parts of the world.</p>
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		<title>By: Maximilian Forte</title>
		<link>http://zeroanthropology.net/2009/10/07/afghanistans-eighth-anniversary-with-another-crumbling-empire/#comment-7277</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Maximilian Forte]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Oct 2009 16:10:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://openanthropology.wordpress.com/?p=7715#comment-7277</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks very much Frenchguy. Those are two interesting points from Wallerstein. With the sole exception of Dennis Kucinich, there seemed to be a competition among Democratic aspirants to the nomination as candidate for president in 2008 to see who could talk toughest about foreign policy, from threatening Iran with annihilation (Hillary Clinton), to Obama threatening to bomb Pakistan (which the U.S. actually does right now, using drones). Anti-war Democrats did not openly cringe and demand that their candidates stop doing imitations of the worst neo-con thugs, and that is now their sin. His second point, about losing wars -- one has to keep in mind that since WW2, the U.S. has never attacked a country that even came close to its military strength, and still either failed to win (Korea), or lost...its only successes being Grenada, and the abduction of Manuel Noriega in Panama. They also seem utterly incapable of taking two steps without it costing them billions of dollars, a heavy, over inflated, labouring war machine that relies on an obsession with high technology.

At some point, for as much as people in the West may hate the Taliban, they will have to admit that there is something definitely special about poor villagers who fought off the Soviet Union, and then took on an even mightier military superpower, and ran them both into the ground. This is the complete reverse of the classical modernization theories, and the older cultural evolutionist theses that underpinned them. The Taliban may be the only true post-moderns, for having buried that which proclaims itself as modern, progressive, etc.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks very much Frenchguy. Those are two interesting points from Wallerstein. With the sole exception of Dennis Kucinich, there seemed to be a competition among Democratic aspirants to the nomination as candidate for president in 2008 to see who could talk toughest about foreign policy, from threatening Iran with annihilation (Hillary Clinton), to Obama threatening to bomb Pakistan (which the U.S. actually does right now, using drones). Anti-war Democrats did not openly cringe and demand that their candidates stop doing imitations of the worst neo-con thugs, and that is now their sin. His second point, about losing wars &#8212; one has to keep in mind that since WW2, the U.S. has never attacked a country that even came close to its military strength, and still either failed to win (Korea), or lost&#8230;its only successes being Grenada, and the abduction of Manuel Noriega in Panama. They also seem utterly incapable of taking two steps without it costing them billions of dollars, a heavy, over inflated, labouring war machine that relies on an obsession with high technology.</p>
<p>At some point, for as much as people in the West may hate the Taliban, they will have to admit that there is something definitely special about poor villagers who fought off the Soviet Union, and then took on an even mightier military superpower, and ran them both into the ground. This is the complete reverse of the classical modernization theories, and the older cultural evolutionist theses that underpinned them. The Taliban may be the only true post-moderns, for having buried that which proclaims itself as modern, progressive, etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Frenchguy</title>
		<link>http://zeroanthropology.net/2009/10/07/afghanistans-eighth-anniversary-with-another-crumbling-empire/#comment-7274</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Frenchguy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Oct 2009 12:08:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://openanthropology.wordpress.com/?p=7715#comment-7274</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Max, 

Thanks for this analytical summary. There is another interesting analysis of these matters in a recent commentary from Immanuel Wallerstein, &quot;U.S. Internal Politics and its Military Interventions&quot;, 15th september 2009. Quote : 

&quot;&lt;i&gt;The Democrats seem to be stuck with the label of being less macho than the Republicans. So it&#039;s very simple. When Obama makes his decisions on these matters, it&#039;s not enough for him to analyze whether or not troop escalation in Afghanistan makes any military or political sense. He worries above all that he himself, and more broadly the Democratic Party, may be labeled once again as the &quot;sell-outs,&quot; the &quot;doves,&quot; the ones who &quot;lost&quot; countries to the enemies - to the Soviet Union in the old days, to the &quot;terrorists&quot; today &lt;/i&gt;.&quot;

And on a slighlty more optimistic (?) note : 

&quot;&lt;i&gt; If the United States loses too many more wars, its citizens may wake up to the realization that U.S. military interventions abroad and incredibly large military expenditures at home are not the solution to their problems, but the greatest impediment to U.S. national survival and well-being &lt;/i&gt;.&quot;

Source : http://fbc.binghamton.edu/265en.htm

Or how war abroad is fought for petty domestic stakes, with NATO client-states following the lead. What a tragic mess  (or is it a farce ?). 
 
I think it is more than a shame that it must take more wars and countless deaths, destructions and waste of riches for the american citizenry to &quot;wake up&quot;. 
It may help a bit if more professional journalists could end up their decades-long and comfortable snap, and start to get the facts straight, that is, to do their job.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Max, </p>
<p>Thanks for this analytical summary. There is another interesting analysis of these matters in a recent commentary from Immanuel Wallerstein, &#8220;U.S. Internal Politics and its Military Interventions&#8221;, 15th september 2009. Quote : </p>
<p>&#8220;<i>The Democrats seem to be stuck with the label of being less macho than the Republicans. So it&#8217;s very simple. When Obama makes his decisions on these matters, it&#8217;s not enough for him to analyze whether or not troop escalation in Afghanistan makes any military or political sense. He worries above all that he himself, and more broadly the Democratic Party, may be labeled once again as the &#8220;sell-outs,&#8221; the &#8220;doves,&#8221; the ones who &#8220;lost&#8221; countries to the enemies &#8211; to the Soviet Union in the old days, to the &#8220;terrorists&#8221; today </i>.&#8221;</p>
<p>And on a slighlty more optimistic (?) note : </p>
<p>&#8220;<i> If the United States loses too many more wars, its citizens may wake up to the realization that U.S. military interventions abroad and incredibly large military expenditures at home are not the solution to their problems, but the greatest impediment to U.S. national survival and well-being </i>.&#8221;</p>
<p>Source : <a href="http://fbc.binghamton.edu/265en.htm" rel="nofollow">http://fbc.binghamton.edu/265en.htm</a></p>
<p>Or how war abroad is fought for petty domestic stakes, with NATO client-states following the lead. What a tragic mess  (or is it a farce ?). </p>
<p>I think it is more than a shame that it must take more wars and countless deaths, destructions and waste of riches for the american citizenry to &#8220;wake up&#8221;.<br />
It may help a bit if more professional journalists could end up their decades-long and comfortable snap, and start to get the facts straight, that is, to do their job.</p>
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		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Oct 2009 04:38:51 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[[...] Afghanistan’s Eighth Anniversary with Another Crumbling Empire « OPEN ANTHROPOLOGY  openanthropology.wordpress.com/2009/10/07/afghanistans-eighth-anniversary-with-another-crumbling-empire &#8211; view page &#8211; cached  tags: afghanistan, COIN, counterterrorism, McChrystal, WHAM, winning hearts and minds by Maximilian Forte &#8212; From the page [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Afghanistan’s Eighth Anniversary with Another Crumbling Empire « OPEN ANTHROPOLOGY  openanthropology.wordpress.com/2009/10/07/afghanistans-eighth-anniversary-with-another-crumbling-empire &ndash; view page &ndash; cached  tags: afghanistan, COIN, counterterrorism, McChrystal, WHAM, winning hearts and minds by Maximilian Forte &mdash; From the page [...]</p>
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